undefined: 00:00:08

You're listening to Take It Personally, a podcast for photographers about the personal side of business and the art of standing out. Here I'll help you build a business and a brand that is uniquely you. If you want to attract dream clients and stop looking at the competition to decide your next move. If you are ready to show up as a confident branding authority to help you serve your clients and consider your goals and priorities too. If you want to make your mark in a new, underserved niche of photography, then this is the place for you. I'm your host Maddie Pachon, South Dakota brand photographer and educator. I'm a straight shooting, Instagram obsessed. Diehard Swifty who has built a multi six figure business on the back of brand photography all while raising a family. And I know you can do the same. Let's get ready to take it personally. I am so excited to have Roxanne on the podcast today. Roxanne first came into Rebrand about a year ago in January of 2024, and I actually had to confirm that with her before we started recording because I feel like I have known her for so much longer than that. And honestly, that's kind of a recurring theme with the people who come into Rebrand. I feel like we've Just been connected for much longer than we have. Roxanne is the coolest chick. You're going to love her. She has such a way with words. And she honestly, like she's so generous with her words. The way that she speaks about rebrand is really cool as, um, the, the leader of rebrand. But she also has a really cool story of resilience in her business and how she's built what she's built and how rebrand has helped her do that. Before we started recording, I was looking at Roxanne's client profile inside of Rebrand, and in the time that she has been around, been inside the program, so she did her first cohort she did at this time last year, took some time off, and then came back in the fall. And in that amount of time, she's still submitted just shy of 23, 000 in brand photography, with her average booking being about 1, 400, over 1, 400. And she came in, we talk about this in the program, when she came into the program, she had done just a couple of brand sessions or what she called brand sessions. She talks about this as we chat, but there. Very different than the type of session that she offers now. And she was charging 450 and we talk about how her mindset shifted throughout the course of the program and how, it can be really intimidating to come into a program and see people around you who maybe have been there a little bit longer or who have been in business a little bit longer. Or for whatever reason, they're just charging more than you are. And Roxanne really took that as motivation to see the people around her who were charging more and say, okay, because those people are doing that, it means that I can too. And as she consistently worked on her process and the value that she was bringing clients, she was able to raise her prices, but in a way that she felt. Really good about it. So she's not just sending these inflated invoices, she's sending invoices and she's able to say, I feel so aligned with this price because I understand the value and I know what the value is. So in the quarter, in the course of a year going from charging 450 to averaging 1, 400 for a brand session, and before we hopped on this call, she said she just sent a proposal for either six or 11, 000, depending on which one they book. And she said, I don't know if they're going to book, but I feel so confident with the price that I sent them. And if you would have told me that a year ago, like I would have not believed you. She has come such a long way since joining the program. And I love the way her brain works and the way that she talks about investing in yourself and really working on your mindset above all else. So I'm so excited to share this conversation with you.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:04:01

Roxanne, welcome to Take It Personally. I am so thrilled to have you here

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:04:05

Oh my gosh, I've listened for forever, so I feel like I'm so excited.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:04:10

Oh, I love it. I'm so happy that you're here. If you could go ahead and just introduce yourself, let people know who you are, where you're from and what you do.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:04:18

Yes I am Roxanne Engstrom. I'm the founder, visual storyteller and photographer behind Howa Images. And I have been storytelling and doing photography for 10 years, but throughout that time, I have changed a ton, my business has changed a ton, I've moved across the country recently. Your girl Maddie walked me through all of my I'm gonna quit and lose my mind in the last six months of doing that and relaunching in a new place So yeah, I love helping people tell their stories with intention dignity compassion I like also I'm certified in storytelling ethics and that's really important to me. So making sure that We're telling stories with informed consent and that we really have, we're dignifying people and that they feel good about the stories we're telling, and then moving people's business. forward, not just creating, like we say pretty pictures, but really creating a gallery that's going to just make people feel so confident. Like my, I am a hype woman and I always have been in whatever I've done in my life. And what is, I think my superpower is just allowing and cheering on other women and being for them and especially women, but everyone, but just making them or inviting them to step into confidence because it's a muscle. It's not something some people have and you don't, it is literally something you work out. Like you go to the gym and you just try it and it most of the time feels really awkward.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:05:40

Yes, I could not agree more. It is a hundred percent a muscle. I was reflecting the other day about where my confidence started, even just a couple of years ago, compared to where I'm at today. And it's not that, I'm, I look and I'm like, Oh I'm like such a super confident person now. That's not necessarily how I would describe it. describe myself, but when I look back at like where I've come, it was really just a series of choices of being like, okay, today I'm going to make decisions as if I were confident. And today I'm going to do this as if I were confident. And like all of those little actions add up so much.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:06:16

100%. And I think like, when you make a promise to yourself or you say, you're going to do something and you show up and do it, you become more confident because you trust yourself more. It's not about how you appear to other people, even necessarily for me, It's about I said I'm gonna get up and go to the gym and I did it. I don't care if I was slower than the person next to me, because I'm staying in my lane. I am the queen of staying in my lane. I literally have this on my desk. It says, when you're in your lane, there's no traffic.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:06:46

Yes.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:06:48

key for me, especially given some of the unique challenges, I've faced. So it's I just have to be about what I'm about and worry about that and then move forward in confidence. But to me, it's like building confidence is showing up for what I said I'm going to do. It's not about appearing a different way to other people. Cause I will say this, I think social media, owning your own business. Being an entrepreneur comes with this pressure to appear successful, right? Instead of actually being successful. And for me, it's just so much more important to actually define success on your own terms than just to play a successful person on Instagram. Like I, I'm I'm dead serious. Cause I've fallen into that comparison trip and that's where you also, if you find yourself resentful or burnt out or bitter or jealous of others, you got to take a step back because most likely you're not driving in your lane.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:07:35

Yep. A hundred percent. I have loved watching you just evolve, even just over the last year that we've known each other. And even like when you came in to Rebrand, I feel like you already had, So much figured out and the way that you continue to work on like your mindset and your business is a really incredible thing to watch. And then watching you really take that to the next level over this last year has been the coolest thing ever. So let's back up a little bit and chat first through where were you? You first came into rebrand in January of 24 and then did a cohort and then came back this last fall when I changed the program to a full year. So now you're back with us.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:08:16

You can't get rid of me, girl.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:08:18

don't want to, I would never. When you first came in, what was going on in your life and your business that made you say, okay, I'm going to invest in this way? Cause education, I feel Has always been pretty important to you.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:08:29

Yes. We don't even have time to go on about what was all going in my life. So my therapist will send you a debriefing. But no, I one, I was, I was almost launching a kid. So my first child was, basically turning 18 and about to graduate high school. That is a huge emotional, just. I can't explain it to somebody unless you're there because it's just one of those things. We were also preparing to move across the country and I knew that I was at the same way I knew about six years before. I was at a pivot place in my personal, like my business. I love photography. I love my clients. I love what I do. And I was feeling like burnt out and just I know that I can do more with this and I was, my season of life had changed. So I used to love sunset portrait photography because I had little babies, like I have four of them at home, with me 24 seven. And I wanted to do that. I wanted to be there with them. So I didn't want to go back to teaching, which was my previous life. So I launched this business after we moved back from being overseas and I started to do it and I started to grow and it was much slower than I thought and then, all these things, right? But I then was at this season where my kids are all in school. And they're all in sports and I was missing games. I was missing dinner. I was, and I could fully book. I could book way more than I could actually handle, but I was becoming exhausted again and I had personally built my own brand, not like a crazy influencer, a bazillion followers, but I had built my own successful brand and I knew like people knew what to expect of me and I knew that they worked with me because of me. Like I knew that they trusted me because of what they knew of me. And I shared that with boundaries. I've always had a lot of strong boundaries around what I share, but I do share personal things. So I was like, you know what? I'm, I love making women feel really confident and step into like new phases of themselves. And I, I can do that somewhat through family photography and make them see motherhood as beautiful. But I was like, I want to work with other batty women entrepreneurs. That is who I love. I got a taste of it and I just wanted to do it more. But I was really stuck at this place of I, how do I make that pivot without letting my other clients down? But I knew it was this perfect season because I was moving. So what, it was almost like a clean break because what I was able to, what I was going to, I know that you book what you show. You book what you talk about, you book what you put out there. And I was like, I could really be strategic and invest in myself and move forward in North Carolina doing more of what is really aligned to me because I had been saying yes to a lot of things because I love my clients. I want to be clear. Oh my gosh. They made me the photographer. I am. I love them. When I go back to Chicago land, I got their back. And my season of life was changing and I just always want to be the person that's brave enough to edit my own life. I always want to look around at what's happening and not just stay the course because you stay the course. I want to edit so that I can become more aligned with my values so I can become more successful as far as I define success. And what I realized was to earn more, I would just have to keep hustling more. And I didn't, I knew that was trading value. I'm going to, I don't want to cry when I think about this, but like the time with your teenagers, they need you as much as toddlers.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:11:54

absolutely.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:11:55

And I'm like, I'm not missing any more games. I'm not missing any more things now, of course, occasionally, but because that's what any working parent, we have to make hard choices, but I just knew that I could do something different, but I knew that investing in myself and taking that goal seriously was where I needed to be. And I'm the kind of person, maybe you're out there listening, like I know I need a kick in the pants. I also know that I value what I pay for. Like your girl, if I put money into something, my butt's going to show up. If I do a free course online, I'm going to download it once and maybe you'll never see me again. That's just my life. Like it's chaos over here. So I was like, if I put money in this, I am going to show up and do it. So that's really where I was at that season.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:12:38

And at that time you obviously had a successful photography brand, so you were shooting other things, but had you shot a brand session before?

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:12:47

I think at that point I had done like I, I called them creative portrait sessions. but they were to help like one person more share their story online. Like maybe more, I would call it not like influencer, like 10, 000 follower influencer. But like people that were growing businesses online, I had done a couple of those. But nowhere near the process I have now, like now I just feel like, Oh my gosh, I didn't even know what I didn't know. And that's the thing. Give yourself grace. You don't know what you don't know, and I think Once you're a professional, right? It can feel like weakness to ask questions, but the only way you get better, I tell this to my kids all the time, be brave enough to suck at something, be brave enough to be new at something. Because if you're never brave enough to be seen being awkward, you'll never be great, right? You'll never be excellent. So listen, I, you will, you, I will never despise being seen trying harder. I'm going to be out here on these streets trying harder, building confidence, serving my clients better. That's what I'm going to be doing. So this was part of that journey for me. So I'm so thankful for you, Maddie. Yeah.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:13:55

loved watching your journey and it's incredible to see where you were a year ago versus where you are today. You came into rebrand and you said your average session that you were shooting, you were charging like 450 for, and now we were just looking at your student dashboard, the average session that you have been booking inside of rebrand is 1, And that just keeps growing because you keep sending these giant invoices. I'm obsessed with it.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:14:23

I know. It's so crazy. And, but this is the best part of that for me is like, Cause this is what I want to speak to the person that's listening. That's like me. Okay. Who's thinking, Oh, like everything in me. I don't want to rip people off. I don't want to I don't want to just raise my prices. this is huge. I think this is so important because, and let me be clear, no shade. Okay. Maybe a little shade, but I'm not going to mention any names. I have taken other masterclasses or whatever free things online with other photographers. And to me, the vibe was. Get people in from a, for a portrait session and then like nickel and dime them. Like it never said in those words, believe you, believe me, but charge them for the downloads, charge them for this, pressure them to buy this. That's the way it felt. Listen, those people are making more money than me. So again, no, like a little shade, but no shade. It's just not, it's just not me though. Do you know what I mean? This is the thing you have to know who you are. And for me that I want to I wouldn't hire a photographer like that. Do you know what I'm saying? I want my images. I want the rights to post them, all those things. So I was like, I just knew I could never, With a straight face, go into a sales meeting like that because it's not me. And again, it's, if it works for you, it works for you. But when you know what's aligned to you, like I am a whole grown ass woman. I know who I am. I know what I'm comfortable with. So for me, and I see a lot of photographer groups right out there right now, like on Facebook, right? I'm in a lot of these people complaining, bookings are down. How do I charge more? How do I raise my prices and still get bookings? All these things. And I've even commented before, but for me, it was like I know that people will always pay for what they value. Now you will work yourself out of some clients. But you guys, if you're going to evolve and change, that's a good thing. When I first started 10 years ago, I remember like begging people to do a session like, Oh for 50 bucks for 50 bucks. I'm new. Now, if we go back and look at those pictures, they were worth about 49. 95. Let's be honest. They were real rough girl. We're not even going to talk about it. It's on my Instagram. You can go back, but I don't have that skill level anymore. And I think a lot of, especially women are living in this like past version of ourselves and we're not stepping into that confidence. And so for me, I knew I want to increase my pricing so I can spend more time with my kids and my business can be what I said it was going to be, which is something that is not the only thing in my life that dictates my time, but that adds value to our family as far as financials, but also gives me a creative outlet and lets me work with people that I love. But I w I didn't want to just raise my prices. I wanted to raise the value so that my clients. Same exact way that they would text me after a 400, 50 or 450 session in their car crying because they can't believe how beautiful they look. I want them to feel that with a 1, 950 session. And I knew that was in me, Maddie, like that's the thing, but I was scrambled the ADHD ing, I was like, how do I get there? And so I knew I wanted growth. And to massively increase the value of my work so that I felt aligned and then more excited about my work. Because like right now I put in way more work than I used to for a 450 session, right? But that makes perfect sense because I'm charging way more and I feel great about it. Like I don't feel any type of way. I don't feel exhausted. I don't drag myself to sessions anymore.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:17:44

I think that this is something that isn't talked about enough because there is a lot of rhetoric in the coaching and education industries that you should charge more. And yeah, totally. I agree. Photographers tend to be really underpriced just in general. Creative fields in general are not charging enough. And we need to take into account that if you're charging 450 right now, if some coach comes up to you and says, I want you to raise your price to 1, 400 right now, you're going to have a flipping heart attack. Like

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:18:14

And you actually should because that's actually shady if you're not doing anything different that you like listen to your mind and heart on that, right? Raise your experience. Yeah.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:18:27

Yep, absolutely. And I think too often people raise their price because they get busier and busier. So they incrementally raise their price and then they eventually get to this point at whatever number it is, where they max themselves out and people aren't paying those prices anymore. It's not because the price is too high. It's because the value doesn't match the price. And so inside of rebrand, that is something that we are constantly working on is not just raising your price, but raising the value and raising your confidence so you understand the value that you're bringing to the table so you can send a 3, 000 invoice and be like, I earned every penny of that 3, 000 and not in a way where I'm like hustling like crazy and I'm burnt out and I'm resentful or anything like that. But it's that valuable. The price matches the value.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:19:14

And I want to say if you're listening and you're thinking, Oh my gosh, I could not do that. Yeah. Listen, I almost threw up and peed my pants the first time I sent my full, I'm not even going to lie. I was like, run into the bathroom, I'm going to puke. I can't do this. I can't send this because I was so used to having, like she said, raising my price, 25, 50 every time. But you have to get very real with yourself and this is what it is, right? If you feel burned out or resentful. Of your work or clients are taking advantage of you or any of those things, right? If you feel oh my gosh It is lovingly i'm going to say what was said to me at one point, which was through out of love It is because of your own lack of boundaries most likely Okay, and because you are not with the right kind of clients that value you when I charged way less I had the clients that Questioned everything or and maybe I wasn't as good sure and my process wasn't as good But when I raised sure I lost some people and I respect that because this is, listen, photography is not a requirement, right? People choose to have it or they don't. But like I have people more that are like, I don't want a photographer. I want Roxanne, right? They see you as like somebody who they see your expertise and they appreciate it. And that allows you, I think to relax into your career, at least for me, my creative energy. And you need to make sure that your process serves your clients well, offers that value, and that then you are compensated in a way that makes you feel really good about putting in all the extra work. Like I have joy when I put it in now in the last six months because I'm like, I'm being compensated fairly. And that's really what revamped has helped me arrive at, is and listen, I, other, I've had past clients say, Leave because they're like, okay, Roxanne raised her prices. This was before we ran, but Roxanne raised her prices. I'm going to go somewhere else like where it's 2 15 hour. And then they came back and they said, Oh my gosh, that photographer then charged me this and then charged me this and then charged me this and then charged me this. And it wasn't up front and I'm so sorry. I left you and I'm coming back. And I'm like, girl, I got you. No worries, but I done told you, but people don't listen. It's fine. But that's the thing. It's just make it straight up. That's what I appreciate. Like when you go through in the beginning, when you join rebrand, you do a signature session with us. You help us. It's the one on one coaching and the group coaching that helps you see, and then you see these other women. You're like, Oh my gosh. And this is, we talked about this a little bit before Maddie, but when you see someone else, one of the reasons I love being on rebrand right now is because there's new rebranders, right? And so I'm able to say, you can do it because I did it and I didn't think I could do it six months ago. And I think all of us have this comparison trap in business and entrepreneurship and you can, you literally, it's a mindset you choose if someone, if you see someone else doing something and being successful, you, your brain, literally your cognitive thinking, you have a choice to say because she's doing that, I can't do it like, Oh my gosh. I can't, there's no way.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:22:10

Market is too saturated. She has this and I don't. Yeah,

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:22:14

Or you can say, Oh my gosh, that's inspiring. I can learn and then I can still make it my own because that's the thing. The other thing about mentorship and coaching is I just sent out an email to my email list about this mentorship and coaching has helped hold me accountable. You've helped me do that. Giving me real feedback. I love you for that. Your video where you were like, this is Roxanne 2. 0 on my last session. I recorded it. Cause I was like, I'm going to listen to this on a bad day. Cause I respect you so much. And so it was really helpful to hear that. And it's also helped me realize what I don't agree with. Like what is still what I'm going to do differently, but you have, when you, and so that's like a good thing. You bump up against things and you're like, I wouldn't do it that way. I'm still going to do it my way. And then you figure out who you are. But like that, like crucible, that process forces you to make decisions. And for me, that's good because I can be all over the place. I'm like, Ooh, shiny object. And I was just doing too many sessions and I was so busy. I was editing and shooting. All the time. I had no time to develop anything like a system. Forget it.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:23:19

Photography is such an art and I think a lot of people get into it because of the art that we forget that if we want to actually build a business, that's a different skill set. And I will talk to a lot of people during rebrand launches who beat themselves up about that. I'm so bad at Messaging, or I don't know what I'm doing when it comes to social media, or I'm, I don't understand marketing or whatever. And they just really beat themselves up about it. And I think it's important to remember that that is a completely different skillset than learning how to use your camera. It is okay to ask for help. It's okay to say, I'm a really good photographer, but like this piece, sales and marketing and client experience, not really my thing, so I'm going to get help with those things.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:24:00

Yes. And that goes back to, again, it's so funny, right? Cause I've been a photographer for 10 years. My company was founded 10 years ago. And I remember the first few years I had a, another mentor, a great guy, but he was like, why do you have such a problem calling yourself a professional photographer? And I was like, cause I didn't study, like I didn't go to school for it. He's if you are making money as a photographer, you are a professional photographer. And he's nobody can tell you that, but you, like you have to decide. So then somewhere in the last 10 years, I got to be knowing that I was a professional photographer and then thinking that meant that I'm not going to suck at new things. Like somewhere along the line I got, so like literally I posted a reel about this because I got new lighting. I invest because in part because of rebrand and doing more brand photography and in part because I was like, I had saved for it and I was really excited to and so I bought all this new lighting girl, couldn't use it, cried real tears, called the company, thought my thing was broken. I'm like, what is wrong with me? And I literally for about two hours made that mean that I should quit. and that I should go do something else because I am a complete failure and a miserable human being. And then I was like, what do I tell every other woman that I mentor? Failure is feedback. You can figure it out. You are grittier and scrappier than and just because you don't know how to do something right now does not mean you cannot be gritty enough to figure it out. And I think it's absolutely true that. We nobody knows when they start their own business all that's involved because if you had told me I would have been like no thank you because It's a whole

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:25:33

my day

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:25:33

Yeah. I always say people on the Instagrams they, Oh, I'm going out to lunch with my girlfriends and coffee with my friend. And I'm always like, what life is that? Because I'm at home editing, cooking for these people, picking up kids, shooting a session, right? It's yes, it is. Some days it's like that. It's amazing. You do. And I, especially with living with a chronic illness, the freedom that I have to plan my days, but it is straight work. It is a lot of work. And if you like, this is the thing, again, driving in my lane. I can tell you like three or four things right now that I am excellent at. And it's taken me a long time in my life to be able to actually own that and live in confidence in that. But I can also tell you about 10 things that I absolutely am abysmal at and it's okay. And I can get better at those things or I can make enough to farm them out. To hire help or I can just learn new skills. So I just want to say to anybody, right? You can learn new things that you are not good at today. Do not have to dictate the business that you have in a year. You can figure out and learn new things. And if you need help, this is the biggest thing. And this is the biggest thing that I recommend to the women I mentored now too. People always want to know when they're starting out, what camera should I buy? What camera should I buy? What equipment should I invest in? My first camera has long been sold on eBay long ago. Cameras are important. I'm not going to say equipment's not important. I just invested in a bunch of new equipment. And you taught, we talk about that inside of rebrand. It's important, but the only thing that you carry with you in every season of business is yourself.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:27:05

Yep.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:27:06

is not a magical, rebrand is not the magical thing that will fix your business. You are rebrand is an amazing, in my opinion, very robust, abundant tool that has so many facets and it will help you. But what I have found again and again is that it's me. It's me that I should invest in because even if I pivot tomorrow, God forbid my disease progresses and I can't shoot, I can be an, I can do another business. I know I can. Why? Because I've shown up for myself and I know I can do it. So your mindset, what you learning new things, it just creates so much momentum and empowerment and you can't, like you can't really, I don't know, quantify that. It's just, it's worth it. It's worth the

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:27:51

It builds so much resilience and you can't, it. that's not something that you can just like manufacture, like it's created over time. And to your point, whether that's, Through a program like rebrand or through something else, whatever you build so much resilience simply by saying, I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to show up for myself every single day. I'm going to build my own personal brand. Cause then yeah you're spot on. You can take that with you. That's why people will often ask me like what's the platform that I should build on? Should I do. Email marketing. Should I do social media? Should I be on Instagram? Should I be on TikTok? And that doesn't matter as much as building your own personal brand. Because the personal brand comes with you. Whether TikTok shuts down tomorrow or there's a new platform a month from now, your personal brand comes with you. So whatever platform you want to build it on that, but invest in your personal brand, however you want to do that.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:28:42

Yeah. And I want to say something about that because I say this to my clients all the time. For people like, sometimes especially I find women struggle with this more. I will talk to my own branding clients about this. Oh, I struggle with building a brand, quote unquote, building a brand. Like I am my brand because it feels so yucky. It feels so self centered. It feels so egotistical. Building a brand is only gross. If you are like, if you are a gross person that's trying to take advantage of people, or if you don't want to serve your clients, I don't care. I'm not even speaking about photographers. I'm speaking to anybody right now. That's gross. Please don't get on social media and build it because we got plenty of people out there doing that. Confidence is not arrogance, right? And showing up as your authentic self, one, it encourages others to show up as their authentic selves It helps connect you to the people that value you and value what you have to offer. And I want to say, With so many boundaries. I have written about this in the past because there's a lot of things in, I share a lot of myself actually online, but there's a lot of things that will never be online about my family, about myself, about my kids, and no apologies and no explanation to anyone because I don't owe it to them. My close circle knows and that's it. And you can build a brand with boundaries. And so I think that's something that, women especially don't be afraid to step into like personal branding because you think it's making it all about you. It's actually allowing you to connect with the people that are going to appreciate what you have to offer and you're going to be able to see them. Like my clients, what I think I, what I love is when I meet my clients, they feel like they know me in some way and, they do because we share back and forth and then I follow them and I cheer them on and I'm like, I just sent. My last client just a message yesterday saying, I just want to tell you, you're crushing it. She's been posting her pictures every single day since our session. And I'm like, I just am cheering you on. And we have that built because we started following each other and knowing what each other was about, and then one other thing I was thinking when you were saying that about people investing in it, don't be too proud to admit that you need help and that you don't know what you don't know. I think Vulnerability is something, I'm not talking about, Oh, I'm going to talk about all my era, all my dirty laundry online so that I can appear vulnerable. I'm talking about actually saying, Hey, I'm a photographer, but I need help using my flash or, Hey, I'm a photographer. But like, how did you get those indoor photos to look like that? Hey, I'm a photographer, but like my back end dub Sato CRM is a mess. Somebody help. Because until you do that, you are not going to feel aligned and good about what you have to offer. And it's, and everybody has deficits guys. There is nobody, the person that you are following that you think is crushing and owning and just like stomping the world. Maddie has vulnerabilities and things that she's not good at. Everybody that you see online has things that they need to grow in. And that's one of the reasons I trusted Maddie because Maddie told me from the I have a mentor. I don't trust people that don't also have a mentor. If you think you've arrived, I'm not down. We are all on a journey and just don't be too proud to miss, for me, in my my, my worldview. Don't be too proud to miss what God has for you by focusing on what you could do better.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:32:00

I was having a conversation with another student the other day who was just having a really hard time. And so we were working through some mindset stuff. And she said something along the lines of it just feels like everyone else has this figured out and I don't have this figured out. And I was like, I'm going to stop you right there. I'm like, that is if you're going through life thinking that everyone who's an entrepreneur has something that you don't have, you're wrong. That is just so wrong. And

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:32:25

Tell her to call me girl. I'll make her feel better.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:32:28

I'm like, I at this point in my career, the brand photography side of my business, I feel really good about. I don't, it is very rare on the photography side where I will say, I don't know what I'm doing now. Sometimes if I get a new piece of lighting equipment or I'm learning a new But in general, that's pretty good. But then I went and launched this whole new education business and now I got to learn Facebook ads and I got to learn up sales funnels. And I, so what did I do? I hired for all of those things. Cause I don't know what the hell

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:32:58

yeah. Terrifying. Yeah.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:33:00

Terrifying. So it's just an evolution, right? As soon as you figure out one thing, there's going to be something new that pops up that you have no idea what the F you're doing and you will figure it out or you will find someone who can help. And I think that's the beauty of entrepreneurship and of growing as a human and growing as a business owner is that we can do that. We can do hard

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:33:18

Yes. And if you, if you are waiting for the one thing that's going to fix everything, you're always going to be disappointed.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:33:27

Yeah.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:33:28

So I remember when I invested thousands into a rebrand of my business, my website. And I remember two days after it launched, I thought to myself, Oh, I would have done this differently now, like two days after my website launched. And then I figured out how to change it on my own. But that I literally laughed to myself because I was like, That's what life is. It's not just entrepreneurship. Life, parenting, trust me, every time you think you have something figured out, it's the goal is going to move. But this is what I want to say about that. That's important. That should not make us feel what's the word? Like discouraged. It should make us a non negotiable link arms, with other people doing the same thing because when you link arms with other people that are real and I'm not talking about, don't get in these groups that are just complaining about their clients. Unfollow. I do not have anything negative to say about my clients. I was like, they are amazing humans. What are you talking about? But don't link arms with people that are pushing themselves to be better, but that are realistic about how hard that is and community. And investing in yourself, you're going to be around a different caliber of person and it's going to encourage you when you have a down day and then when they have it. And then you can also, you know what you have to do is learn to celebrate the wins, right? So the biggest invoice I ever sent when I signed it I celebrated that win with a little small dinner or a lunch out with my husband. Like I'm going to celebrate those little things because I know that I still have a lot more to learn, but that's a win. And in rebrand, we do that for each other. Like we have an entire Slack channel and just wins. And it's not because of the environment you've created as a leader. It's not this nasty, like one upmanship that can exist. And it's not posturing. It's okay, y'all know how I was a hot mess yesterday, but today this happens. Like, And that's you have to be with people that are being honest about the journey, but that are not content to settle for less than their best.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:35:20

Ooh. Yeah. That's, that is one of the biggest reasons that I love having you in Rebrand because like you said, when we opened this episode, you are a hype girl. Like you are the first person to cheer others on. To tell them, Hey, I've been there and it sucks. And I see you and you're going to get through this. Like I, people like you are what make the program that really incredible community. So thank you for being here. and I just, I could talk to you

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:35:45

Yeah, and I think that is has a lot to do with your leadership to Maddie because it's like a lot of people are insecure as a leader and they don't, they can't lead alongside other people that have leadership gifts. And I have leadership gifts and there's

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:35:59

do.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:36:00

of other people inside of rebrand that do and you let us speak up even if we have something slightly different than you or, And then we offer that to the group and it's not and it's different than someone trying to take charge and whatever, no, but like that kind of thing. And I know one other thing I was going to share that we talked about ahead of time is this is my second time. So I'm not a flunk out. I would like to say it's not like I got an F the first time and I had to join the second time. It's that I, when Maddie reopened it, I was like, you know what? I had a hard season of life and I got a ton out of rebrand. I realized that I could benefit a lot more from really following through and investing in myself again. So I joined the second time and I just want to encourage everybody, like again, you are on your own timeline. Not everybody has my life, a chronic illness, four kids moving across the country, the other things that I'm carrying and I'm committed to getting better. I'm not committed to beating her. Or doing better than her or doing worse than or look, I'm doing better than her. So I'm winning. No, I want to stay in my lane and improve until my process and my value matches what I'm charging. And I feel amazing about it. So I was like, you know what? I want to stay and just make sure I've refined all that and get that. My favorite part of the program for me has been the, when I submit my stuff and you give the honest review, she's always on our walking pad guys. Oh my gosh. I love it. Yeah, I was like, Oh she's got this down. And she gives the honest feedback. And the first couple of times you gave me feedback, I was like, I don't like that feedback. And then I was like, Oh, but she's right. She's right. So I went back and I refined. And then the latest one I got, I was like, and I knew, see, this is the thing. When I submitted this session, I knew it was the best session I've ever shot. And I, and then you confirm that. And I was like, now I have what I need to move forward. So it's if you need to do what you need to do to get better, period. I don't care if that's invest in rebrand. I don't care if that's invest in something else. Whatever it is, a mindset coach, maybe you just need to go to therapy. Maybe you just, I go to therapy. Everybody needs that. But whatever it is for you to heal, move forward, get better and feel more successful in your life. Defining that on your own terms, girl, we are cheering for you. Be brave enough to do it. Be brave enough to do it.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:38:15

I love it. Roxanne, tell everybody where you're at now and how they can work with you. If they're looking for a brand

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:38:21

Oh my gosh, I would love it. I'm obsessed with my clients in the Raleigh area. They are the most fire, I cannot even tell you. So I moved from Chicagoland, I'm now, and I go back to Chicagoland to do sessions there a couple times a year, so you can still hit me up for that. I have an email list that people get first notice, priority booking. I'll be there in March. And then I am now right outside of Raleigh, North Carolina. So servicing, all of the areas around there and I do brand session. I call them brand storytelling sessions because I am a storyteller and I help small businesses, companies, just tell your story with intention, creativity, dignity and really move your business forward. So I partner with people to make sure that we have a really unique way to share your story. I have a I'm excited to be working with a client later today, so I'm so excited.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:39:09

I love it. I'm going to include your social media and website and everything in the show notes. So if you guys are in Roxanne's area, you can hit her up. Roxanne, you're such a fricking light. I could literally keep talking to you for the next couple of hours. I'm just, I'm so thankful to have you in my life. So thankful to have you in the program and can't enough for being here today.

roxanne-engstrom-hawa-images--her-_1_02-03-2025_120952: 00:39:27

Thank you so much, Maddie. There are so many of us that appreciate you and your willingness to say, Hey, I am successful at this, but I also want to empower others to find their own version of success at this is really inspiring. So I'm grateful to know you like you're the real deal. You're not just playing success on Instagram. You're the real deal.

maddie--she-her-_1_02-03-2025_110953: 00:39:46

Thank you. I appreciate that.

undefined: 00:39:51

Thank you so much for listening to Take It Personally. If you haven't already, would you head over to iTunes and leave us a review? This is the best way to let other photographers know about the show and help keep us creating content you crave. And if you want more tips and tools to build your personal photography brand, head over to my website, MaddiePichon. com. Here, you can access my downloadable ultimate personal brand session shot list to get your clients singing your praises and browse my blog for more trade secrets to help you hone your craft and grow your business. Love to learn while you listen, visit MaddiePachon. com and click on podcast for all things. Take it personally. From show notes to recent episodes and incredible guest profiles. Remember friend, the most important part of any brand is the people behind it. Branding and business is personal, so let's take it personally.